Friends,
I am traveling quite a bit right now for the new film but plan on having a special, likely colorful radio show on the 30th of this month, which I will simply call : "TZM: Complaints and Attacks"

Please submit below any attacks/complaints you have found regarding The Zeitgeist Movement & The Venus Project, no matter how irrational or ignorant. That stated, I do wish for you all to have some taste here for the sake of not wasting my/your time. For example, I hope I don't see things like: "There is a claim TZM worships Satan- is this true?!" It should be obvious to all of you by now that we are a Luciferian new age cult... right?


Rules:
(1)Do not post links to anything or videos. To submit a inquiry here you must type out the exact complaint/attack premise, NOT including the source. Any links/videos posted will be removed, so please respect this.

Why? because we are not here to promote the websites/persons who, more often than not, promote their often sensationalized attacks simply because they want attention. This site gets a tremendous amount of traffic and it is often found that those complaining about TZM are really making a spam attempt to draw attention to their website/organization.
I will deal only with the exactly stated points, which is all that matters anyway.

(2) Do not post personal attacks. I will not address anything that says something to the effect of "Peter Joseph is #$%^& because of XXXXX" This is just pointless and a waste of time. Someone not liking me/others personally is not a criticism of TZM's tenets.
Also, this goes for my films - such criticisms will not be addressed here as they are external to TZM itself.

(3) Please be concise. I don't have time to weed through long winded prose. Please keep it around 5-10 lines if possible.

This exercise is essentially intended to respond to those which seem to think we here are avoiding/censoring "important" questions about The Movement. This is a common, often misguided claim. However, as annoying as it can be, I will take the time to address even the most absurd ridicules of The Movement. Yet...again, please use common sense when posting. And again- please keep it in context of The Movement itself.

Peter

NOTE- TO AVOID DUPLICATES, PLEASE REVIEW OTHER'S POSTS FIRST. ALSO- PLEASE DO NOT DEBATE POINTS WITH EACH OTHER HERE.(IT WILL LIKELY BE TOO MUCH TO READ THROUGH) THIS IS FOR SUBMISSION ONLY-THANKS

Hello Peter,

My philosophy professor (who is an anarchist by the way, and really fond of the movement in general) displayed opposition only to the resource distribution aspect of a Resource Based Society. He stated something along the lines of: People want to be involved in society, we cannot remove the human variable entirely from the maintenance of society for this would produce a sense of discomfort and helplessness in the population. Certainly remove borders in order to remove war, remove money to remove the profit incentive; but at least maintain human participation in the distribution of resources, so that people are consciously aware that they are in control of their fate. Remove the human variable from all positions of leadership and they will feel insignificant and weak. Ultimately: Why can't people distribute the resources themselves?

peterjoseph wrote:
...no matter how irrational...

Hi Peter,

This is not so much a complaint or attack, but more of a curiosity of mine regarding the forum.
There seems to always be one guest viewing the forum.
Is this always the same guy?
I mean, the same IP?

Ech wrote:
peterjoseph wrote:
...no matter how irrational...

Hi Peter,

This is not so much a complaint or attack, but more of a curiosity of mine regarding the forum.
There seems to always be one guest viewing the forum.
Is this always the same guy?
I mean, the same IP?

That's usually me.

stp52x wrote:
Hello Peter,

My philosophy professor (who is an anarchist by the way, and really fond of the movement in general) displayed opposition only to the resource distribution aspect of a Resource Based Society. He stated something along the lines of: People want to be involved in society, we cannot remove the human variable entirely from the maintenance of society for this would produce a sense of discomfort and helplessness in the population. Certainly remove borders in order to remove war, remove money to remove the profit incentive; but at least maintain human participation in the distribution of resources, so that people are consciously aware that they are in control of their fate. Remove the human variable from all positions of leadership and they will feel insignificant and weak. Ultimately: Why can't people distribute the resources themselves?

I realise these questions are for Peter, but I just wanted to add that people do not generally feel discomfort when using a calculator or a fuel gage in their car, in fact, usually, they feel much more confident using those things rather than human judgement. Why? Because these are tools designed specifically for a particular use and are much better suited to that task. If you had someone with a leg injury, with the option of calling a doctor or your uncle, who would you choose? Why can't your uncle treat the leg injury? He could, but why should you deliberatly choose the less efficient option? Your uncle might feel quite helpless that he couldn't treat the leg injury, but that is not justification to not use the more efficient option. (The whole idea of feeling helpless is culturally defined anyway: no one feels helpless letting a car get them to work faster than their legs).

In other words, there is a certain amount of social responsibility. In a Resource Based Economy human participation would be massive, with everyone having a greater access to educational resources etc., but reducing efficiency in certain areas just so humans can feel like they're participating would be like removing all water taps so there could be human participation in transporting all water to every home manually. Plenty of basic needs are automatic now, just like the iceman example Peter used in the past, and this is just another sector that culture lag, unfortunately, is still behind on.

1

I would like to see your Zeitgesit-remake investigations team make a guide on Addendum, the guide pdf and conferences too. It will eliminate a lot of spaces hard-headed skeptics and people on denial get into.

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2

I think the way people will be educated into understanding the venus project and the subsequent difficult inner changes on thinking, personality and behaviours that must take place is is too vague. The ideas we are aiming at are magnificent but I don´t see a concrete way to treat our sick psychology (culture) into a understanding one. Specially since our culture has very strong defense mechanisms built into it. I propose a more agressive (non-violent) and cutting-edge psychology approach. Maybe have a psychology team build methods.

Maybe we could make use of the "social network tool" called formspring (formspring.com).

This would be usefull as a way of making this attempt to be "out of the TZM bubble", since all request for "attacks" must be posted here, by a member.

If we opened it on formspring, we could tell people to go there, and write their own attacks to TZM with the "promise" that it would be read and replied by Peter. Of course the amount of useless stuff would be enormous, so it would necessary to have a team of people to filter personal attacks, spam and whatnot, from a "worthy" attack.

Just an idea.

"TZM: Complaints and Attacks"

Please submit below any attacks/complaints you have found regarding The Zeitgeist Movement & The Venus Project

I only list relevant ones (ignoring stuff about religion and conspiracy):

1. TZM/TVP has not developed a transition strategy that is applicable right now. The world faces immediate problems that have real solutions right now - but the movement is focused upon education about some unrealized future possibility. This is like a doctor that is showing the cancerous patient nanotechnology and the way we will use nanotechnology to battle cancer in the future. But the doctor is doing nothing to help people right now. What is needed is doctors and teachers. We need doctors who are helping people right now and we need teachers who are helping to develop technologies for the people of the future. TZM/TVP is not approaching the problem efficiently.

2. Money will not disappear - it will evolve into something that is more scientific: designed to address goals of the community - like abundance. The concept of money evolves in an emergent fashion. Only the current implementation will disappear - perpetually. Everything that we create to replace the old with the new will disappear as well. This is the pattern of emergence.
- Because the members and leaders unite against illogical implementations of a goal, they risk abandoning the goal itself. It is illogical to unite against the concept of money - which is at its core: a means of accounting and exchange. Science would be nowhere without accounting and exchange of realistic information.
- Unite against the current implementation of money: a centralized banking system that is based upon fictional debt. The centralized banking system disconnects communities from the source of goods and services and creates interdependent, inefficient, and unsustainable communities. The centralized banking permits exploitation by those who are closest to the source of the money creators. And because of these effects of centralized banking - there is a dependence upon the availability of money itself.
- The intermediate solution is decentralized banking practices where people are free to create their own money that is based in real goods and services. People can implement banking systems that are catered to address the goals which they deem important - allowing for infinite employment. When people are free to create their own currencies - they can deter all of the things that are deemed undesirable... by design.

3. The movement is similar to religious people who await Armageddon in that many members believe that the transition will be dependent upon an essential Collapse. The danger in this belief is that many people do nothing to prevent Collapse.

4. The movement's (and any teacher's) purpose is to coerce people into a desire to learn... becoming the embodiment of emergence. There are many people that are in the movement who are disgruntled with their current situation - and they dogmatically uphold the tenets of the movement with no desire to seek understanding. These people portray the movement as cult-like.

5. People who respectably oppose aspects of TZM are eventually kicked out of the movement. This does not align with the concept of emergence. The movement is removing the people who are best suited to facilitate the movement's embodiment of emergence. Fresco talks about the city of the future being an ever-changing thing. But how is it supposed to change if it kicks out people who advocate change? This is one among many complaints concerning hypocritical actions that the moderation team upholds. This also contributes to the perception that the movement is cult-like.

6. TVP is putting all of their eggs in one basket with their plan to create a movie and a theme park. Many people see this plan as inefficient at best. Why not implement multiple strategies simultaneously? Why not implement a strategy that empowers TVP ability to create change - like local currency and self-sufficient communities that target scarcity and education as some of their many objectives?

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These are complaints from people who like the vision of emergence and abundance.

I like the movement but for some reason its doesnt seems to be making any progress, like the knowledge base for some reason is taking quite a long time to grow..I'v seen maybe 8 topics in it but I'v seen so much information in the forum on topics that I think are worthy of being up there. I imagine you are busy? are you the only on working on this? how big is your team? do you even have a team? I see lots of people on the forum whom I think have a great thought process and could most likely put some really good things in there.

1. I'd like to hear a few responses you've found to be most effective to address people's claim that, "The Venus Project's proposal is too huge" or "It'll never happen" or "We're 1000 years away from something like that", etc.

2. I've come across several people who, despite their ignorance, claim that "The Zeitgeist Movement has a lot of big ideas, but there is very little concrete follow-through." Basically, can you emphasize the need for gathering "critical mass" before attempting the next step (research/test city, etc.).