Greetings. I come before you with some questions, questions I suspect have been raised to some of you already. I am especially interested in hearing from the individuals organizing this movement and who produced the Zeitgeist films. I do not intend to troll, but I feel this should be discussed.

I will start by saying I really enjoyed both Zeitgeist films. But like many of you, I'm sure, I have encountered films that attempt to debunk the teachings of Jordan Maxwell. To be honest, I found the criticism of Maxwell pretty compelling and it started to change the way I looked at this whole concept.

I am not a Christian. I have never been baptised and I consider myself agnostic. Yet, I worry about the intentions behind this seemingly benign movement. I worry because of Jordan Maxwell's connections to Theosophy and the apparent occultism among the producers of the Zeitgeist films.

Theosophy, it's founder Madame Helena Blavatsky, her successor Alice Bailey and *her* successor Benjamin Creme are all popular subjects with conspiracy theorists. To put it simply, many people believe that theosophy is a thinly veiled form of Satanism. Some people believe that Theosophy was created by Rosicurian Freemasons. Alice Bailey and her husband, a 33rd degree mason, formed an organization called the Lucifer trust, today known as the Lucis trust, which is a component of the United Nations. Blavatsky and Bailey were both pretty open about their reverence for Lucifer as a biblical figure. That's fair enough, but any of you who have seen the videos on youtube that claim to debunk Jordan Maxwell will see that he is - to but it bluntly - deceptive regarding the origins of his views and the nature of his interpretation of scripture.

Jiddu Krishnamurti was anointed as world teacher by the Theosophical society - as I'm sure most of you know by now. He apparently left this society and followed his own course, as did the Thule society of Germany, which in many ways supported the rise of Adolf Hitler - though he was not a member or an occultist himself. I am a student of occultism, I know Heinrich Himmler was one. He carried a copy of the Bhagavad Gita with him everywhere he went, even though he was supposedly a Catholic.

This is getting rather long and I don't want to ramble too much, so I think I'll just cut to the chase now - What is the connection between the Zeitgeist movement and Theosophy?

I hope that some ranking figures in the movement, or some of you in the know, will be willing to discuss this subject frankly with me and possibly allay my concerns. I certainly hope you all do not react with hostility to this line of questioning. I simply want to know what this organization is really all about. No bull, if you're theosophists I just want to know it. I don't think you all should be afraid to admit that, despite the controversy that comes with it. I think the controversy that comes from hiding it will damage the movement far more.

So here we go...

I have the exact same questions. After hearing Alex Jones "review" of the film I studied the Theosophic society and became concerned about the same matter.

And, I'm deeply worried about it too. However, the Venus Project is the best environmentally sound/ socially apt structure known right now, regardless of it's connections.

The venus project has no connections to theosophic society.

I wonder if some posts are meant to simply stir up conflict.

Notice how they are usually brought up by first-time posters.

Theosophy, it's founder Madame Helena Blavatsky, her successor Alice Bailey and *her* successor Benjamin Creme are all popular subjects with conspiracy theorists. To put it simply, many people believe that theosophy is a thinly veiled form of Satanism. Some people believe that Theosophy was created by Rosicurian Freemasons. Alice Bailey and her husband, a 33rd degree mason, formed an organization called the Lucifer trust, today known as the Lucis trust, which is a component of the United Nations. Blavatsky and Bailey were both pretty open about their reverence for Lucifer as a biblical figure. That's fair enough, but any of you who have seen the videos on youtube that claim to debunk Jordan Maxwell will see that he is - to but it bluntly - deceptive regarding the origins of his views and the nature of his interpretation of scripture.

"Some believe"... yes, quite...

Anyone who has properly read from Theosophists themselves about this knows they have been misrepresented.

Jiddu Krishnamurti was anointed as world teacher by the Theosophical society - as I'm sure most of you know by now. He apparently left this society and followed his own course,

Yes thats something Alex Jones doesnt mention too easily, isnt that interesting!

The only connection Zeitgeist has to Theosophy are the clips from Krishnamurti in the film. Absolutely nothing else can be logically connected to it in any way. Now, consider the fact that Krishnamurti rejected Theosophy at a young age, then add to the fact that the quotes used by Peter make perfect sence in the context of the film, just what else is there to connect Zeitgeist to Theosophy?

But anyway, Alex Jones started all this nonsence about this connection to Theosophy so lets talk about how else he is wrong. Theosophists do not believe or have ever believed in a LITERAL devil, which is what he keeps refering to.

Theosophical.org has a whole page dealing with the MYTH of Lucifer and how it wasnt meant to mean the devil or Satan and how it was a mistranslation. They are correct, "Lucifer" was never meant to refer to Satan or the devil in the original writings. I knew all this before Alex Jones made me look these guys up, but isnt it rather ironic to find this information coming from them considering what they are being accused of?

"Blavatsky certainly did not believe in the existence of any literal devil, under whatever name. And she doubtless thought that ideas about the devil were a mixture of legends and misunderstandings of metaphorical and symbolic language, of which the name Lucifer is a prime example. For that reason also, it was a good name for her magazine"
- Theosophical.org

Now it is true that Blavatsky did use the myth of Lucifer to try and make her points and regularly talked in metaphors allegories to make her points and is easily misunderstood if you dont understand the context even if you're not being given false quotes. Dont believe me? Try reading "Whats in a Name? Why the Magazine is called Lucifer".

And I really hope you dont bring up the "God Spirit" thing, thats just scraping the barrel!

Ed

ed wrote:

Theosophy, it's founder Madame Helena Blavatsky, her successor Alice Bailey and *her* successor Benjamin Creme are all popular subjects with conspiracy theorists. To put it simply, many people believe that theosophy is a thinly veiled form of Satanism. Some people believe that Theosophy was created by Rosicurian Freemasons. Alice Bailey and her husband, a 33rd degree mason, formed an organization called the Lucifer trust, today known as the Lucis trust, which is a component of the United Nations. Blavatsky and Bailey were both pretty open about their reverence for Lucifer as a biblical figure. That's fair enough, but any of you who have seen the videos on youtube that claim to debunk Jordan Maxwell will see that he is - to but it bluntly - deceptive regarding the origins of his views and the nature of his interpretation of scripture.

"Some believe"... yes, quite...

Anyone who has properly read from Theosophists themselves about this knows they have been misrepresented.

Jiddu Krishnamurti was anointed as world teacher by the Theosophical society - as I'm sure most of you know by now. He apparently left this society and followed his own course,

Yes thats something Alex Jones doesnt mention too easily, isnt that interesting!

The only connection Zeitgeist has to Theosophy are the clips from Krishnamurti in the film. Absolutely nothing else can be logically connected to it in any way. Now, consider the fact that Krishnamurti rejected Theosophy at a young age, then add to the fact that the quotes used by Peter make perfect sence in the context of the film, just what else is there to connect Zeitgeist to Theosophy?

But anyway, Alex Jones started all this nonsence about this connection to Theosophy so lets talk about how else he is wrong. Theosophists do not believe or have ever believed in a LITERAL devil, which is what he keeps refering to.

Theosophical.org has a whole page dealing with the MYTH of Lucifer and how it wasnt meant to mean the devil or Satan and how it was a mistranslation. They are correct, "Lucifer" was never meant to refer to Satan or the devil in the original writings. I knew all this before Alex Jones made me look these guys up, but isnt it rather ironic to find this information coming from them considering what they are being accused of?

"Blavatsky certainly did not believe in the existence of any literal devil, under whatever name. And she doubtless thought that ideas about the devil were a mixture of legends and misunderstandings of metaphorical and symbolic language, of which the name Lucifer is a prime example. For that reason also, it was a good name for her magazine"
- Theosophical.org

Now it is true that Blavatsky did use the myth of Lucifer to try and make her points and regularly talked in metaphors allegories to make her points and is easily misunderstood if you dont understand the context even if you're not being given false quotes. Dont believe me? Try reading "Whats in a Name? Why the Magazine is called Lucifer".

And I really hope you dont bring up the "God Spirit" thing, thats just scraping the barrel!

Ed

Thanks for this un-biased, un-patronizing reply. And I agree, every time I hear someone talk about the "god-spirit" I immediately hear Alex Jones saying "GGGOOOOD SPPIIRRIITT???"

^_^

There is ZERO relationshiop to Zeitgeist and The Theosophic Society, outside of the Alex Jones false statement regarding Krishnamurti.

Krishnamurti disbanded from the grop 50 yrs before his death and all anyone has to do is read his work to know that he has no interest in any of it. Alex jones made his biggest blunder on that one and i cant believe people blindly repeat that garbage. That guy is sad.

The comment by john perkins regarding "god spirit" was a poetic comment about our oneness in nature.

I hold suspect everything alex says now.

Firstly, I think if you're looking to categorize anyone into a group, or connect them with another group or suggest there are people to follow, you may have missed what I feel is the greater point. That we are all individuals, that the "zeitgeist" movement is more of an inspiration, that is open to question and suggesttion (which does allow for us to question the motives of those who try to inspire, granted). But, I really think that concerning yourself too much with specifics distracts you from trying to make yourself a better person. Remember, its just an idea, if you feel you are "following" then you are just continuing the old system of belief. Even if I am wrong and the motives turn out to be sinister from my perspective, it won't change who I am or the path I have chosen. Unfortunately based on our society, when any number of people decide to join together in any kind of movement they get branded by some name or stereotype. I think this idea is more about a collection of individuals working together for the progress of our world. There will be people with less than pure motives along the way, but we can't let that stop us from connecting, and trying to connect as many people as possible on a far deeper level than has been acheived by any religious institution, or any other group with a so-called leader or master. Hopefully it can take on a life of its own. With all of us being equal.
The zeitgeist movies are just something that has made me even more aware of potential problems. Take from it what you want, question what you want, but don't let it stand in your way of a personal sense of accomplishment. Because in reality, only you are in control of what you do to make a difference.

Most of the "Debunkers" are closed minded religious people.
They don't know what to debunk, they fear...truth.

I have no idea what theosophy is xD BUT seems to be some sort of satanic shit?
I personally wouldnt care if the creators of the film evrynight like to cut them self then kill a goat and dress like devils while listening to britney spears bcuz neither god or satan or w/e are real, not for me .